Re: svn commit: r1880368 - /httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml

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Re: svn commit: r1880368 - /httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml

Eric Covener
FYI I am seeing if I can coordinate with Humbedooh to change all the
generated files without one of those 17-part commit threads.
But I will probably just commit in the next few hours either way.

On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 7:21 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Author: covener
> Date: Tue Jul 28 11:21:32 2020
> New Revision: 1880368
>
> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=1880368&view=rev
> Log:
> use .utf8 output
>
>
> Modified:
>     httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml
>
> Modified: httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml
> URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml?rev=1880368&r1=1880367&r2=1880368&view=diff
> ==============================================================================
> --- httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml (original)
> +++ httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml Tue Jul 28 11:21:32 2020
> @@ -75,7 +75,7 @@
>  <!-- English                                                              -->
>  <!-- ==================================================================== -->
>  <property value=".xml" name="inputext.en"/>
> -<property value=".html.en" name="outputext.en"/>
> +<property value=".html.en.utf8" name="outputext.en"/>
>
>  <target description="- builds English HTML files" name="en">
>      <html.generic lang="en"/>
> @@ -312,4 +312,4 @@
>      </xmlvalidate>
>  </target>
>
> -</project>
> \ No newline at end of file
> +</project>
>
>


--
Eric Covener
[hidden email]
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Re: svn commit: r1880368 - /httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml

Joe Orton
On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 07:32:01AM -0400, Eric Covener wrote:
> FYI I am seeing if I can coordinate with Humbedooh to change all the
> generated files without one of those 17-part commit threads.
> But I will probably just commit in the next few hours either way.

Does this still need to be done for trunk?  I'm kind of lost here (as
usual with the docs), but running "./build.sh all" in trunk gives me a
tonne of *.html.en.utf8 files.

I have docs/manual/build at r1880369

Should we do a mass "svn mv" for .html.en to .html.en.utf8?

Regards, Joe


>
> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 7:21 AM <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Author: covener
> > Date: Tue Jul 28 11:21:32 2020
> > New Revision: 1880368
> >
> > URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=1880368&view=rev
> > Log:
> > use .utf8 output
> >
> >
> > Modified:
> >     httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml
> >
> > Modified: httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml
> > URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml?rev=1880368&r1=1880367&r2=1880368&view=diff
> > ==============================================================================
> > --- httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml (original)
> > +++ httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml Tue Jul 28 11:21:32 2020
> > @@ -75,7 +75,7 @@
> >  <!-- English                                                              -->
> >  <!-- ==================================================================== -->
> >  <property value=".xml" name="inputext.en"/>
> > -<property value=".html.en" name="outputext.en"/>
> > +<property value=".html.en.utf8" name="outputext.en"/>
> >
> >  <target description="- builds English HTML files" name="en">
> >      <html.generic lang="en"/>
> > @@ -312,4 +312,4 @@
> >      </xmlvalidate>
> >  </target>
> >
> > -</project>
> > \ No newline at end of file
> > +</project>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Eric Covener
> [hidden email]
>

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Re: svn commit: r1880368 - /httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml

Eric Covener
On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:34 AM Joe Orton <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 07:32:01AM -0400, Eric Covener wrote:
> > FYI I am seeing if I can coordinate with Humbedooh to change all the
> > generated files without one of those 17-part commit threads.
> > But I will probably just commit in the next few hours either way.
>
> Does this still need to be done for trunk?  I'm kind of lost here (as
> usual with the docs), but running "./build.sh all" in trunk gives me a
> tonne of *.html.en.utf8 files.
>
> I have docs/manual/build at r1880369
>
> Should we do a mass "svn mv" for .html.en to .html.en.utf8?

yes sorry. It looks nearly as noisy in the commit when I tested it but
I did chat with Daniel and he said just bite the bullet and don't
fiddle around with the mailing list.
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Re: svn commit: r1880368 - /httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml

Christophe JAILLET
In reply to this post by Joe Orton


Le 18/08/2020 à 12:33, Joe Orton a écrit :
On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 07:32:01AM -0400, Eric Covener wrote:
FYI I am seeing if I can coordinate with Humbedooh to change all the
generated files without one of those 17-part commit threads.
But I will probably just commit in the next few hours either way.
Does this still need to be done for trunk?

Yes, I think that it has been done just half-way on trunk. See below


  I'm kind of lost here (as 
usual with the docs), but running "./build.sh all" in trunk gives me a 
tonne of *.html.en.utf8 files.

My first thought was that it shouldn't, unless you modified:
   /home/tititou36/svn_httpd_trunk/docs/manual/style/lang/en.xml

Mine has:
    <target-ext>.html.en</target-ext>

If you look at fr.xml, for example, it has:
    <target-ext>.html.fr.utf8</target-ext>

So, unless, I missed something, only html.en should be generated.


My 2nd thought, is that in fact, I've missed something. See r1880368.
And running build.sh also generates *.html.en.utf8 for me.


So, now it is me who is lost.
What is the relation between what is in <lang>.xml and lang-targets.xml?

<lang>.xml controls what is written in <file>.html and lang-targets.xml how files are named?
If so, it is wired and, if feasible, it would be great to have it defined at only one place.


So I think, that en doc is actually broken on trunk, because the html files point to non-existing files for en version.

:(

CJ


I have docs/manual/build at r1880369

Should we do a mass "svn mv" for .html.en to .html.en.utf8?

Regards, Joe


On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 7:21 AM [hidden email] wrote:
Author: covener
Date: Tue Jul 28 11:21:32 2020
New Revision: 1880368

URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=1880368&view=rev
Log:
use .utf8 output


Modified:
    httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml

Modified: httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml
URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml?rev=1880368&r1=1880367&r2=1880368&view=diff
==============================================================================
--- httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml (original)
+++ httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml Tue Jul 28 11:21:32 2020
@@ -75,7 +75,7 @@
 <!-- English                                                              -->
 <!-- ==================================================================== -->
 <property value=".xml" name="inputext.en"/>
-<property value=".html.en" name="outputext.en"/>
+<property value=".html.en.utf8" name="outputext.en"/>

 <target description="- builds English HTML files" name="en">
     <html.generic lang="en"/>
@@ -312,4 +312,4 @@
     </xmlvalidate>
 </target>

-</project>
\ No newline at end of file
+</project>



-- 
Eric Covener
[hidden email]


    
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Re: svn commit: r1880368 - /httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml

Joe Orton
In reply to this post by Eric Covener
On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 07:08:21AM -0400, Eric Covener wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:34 AM Joe Orton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 07:32:01AM -0400, Eric Covener wrote:
> > > FYI I am seeing if I can coordinate with Humbedooh to change all the
> > > generated files without one of those 17-part commit threads.
> > > But I will probably just commit in the next few hours either way.
> >
> > Does this still need to be done for trunk?  I'm kind of lost here (as
> > usual with the docs), but running "./build.sh all" in trunk gives me a
> > tonne of *.html.en.utf8 files.
> >
> > I have docs/manual/build at r1880369
> >
> > Should we do a mass "svn mv" for .html.en to .html.en.utf8?
>
> yes sorry. It looks nearly as noisy in the commit when I tested it but
> I did chat with Daniel and he said just bite the bullet and don't
> fiddle around with the mailing list.

Thanks & no worries.  The public /docs/trunk/ content still seems to be
working so I'm hoping I haven't completely broken everything:

r1880980 - magic bootstrap step needed to regenerate the typemaps correctly
r1880982 - surely the longest I have ever seen svn commit run for

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Re: svn commit: r1880368 - /httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml

Joe Orton
On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 08:36:02AM +0100, Joe Orton wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 07:08:21AM -0400, Eric Covener wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:34 AM Joe Orton <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 07:32:01AM -0400, Eric Covener wrote:
> > > > FYI I am seeing if I can coordinate with Humbedooh to change all the
> > > > generated files without one of those 17-part commit threads.
> > > > But I will probably just commit in the next few hours either way.
> > >
> > > Does this still need to be done for trunk?  I'm kind of lost here (as
> > > usual with the docs), but running "./build.sh all" in trunk gives me a
> > > tonne of *.html.en.utf8 files.
> > >
> > > I have docs/manual/build at r1880369
> > >
> > > Should we do a mass "svn mv" for .html.en to .html.en.utf8?
> >
> > yes sorry. It looks nearly as noisy in the commit when I tested it but
> > I did chat with Daniel and he said just bite the bullet and don't
> > fiddle around with the mailing list.
>
> Thanks & no worries.  The public /docs/trunk/ content still seems to be
> working so I'm hoping I haven't completely broken everything:
>
> r1880980 - magic bootstrap step needed to regenerate the typemaps correctly
> r1880982 - surely the longest I have ever seen svn commit run for

... in fact in r1880982 I only ran "./build.sh en" I think.

And I am still seeing a big diff changing ISO-8859-1 characters into
HTML entities for other languages when re-running "build.sh all":

$ svn diff vhosts/index.html.de  | head
Index: vhosts/index.html.de
===================================================================
--- vhosts/index.html.de (revision 1880979)
+++ vhosts/index.html.de (working copy)
@@ -23,59 +23,59 @@
 <div id="path">
 <a href="http://www.apache.org/">Apache</a> &gt; <a href="http://httpd.apache.org/">HTTP-Server</a> &gt; <a href="http://httpd.apache.org/docs/">Dokumentation</a> &gt; <a href="../">Version 2.5</a></div><div id="page-content"><div id="preamble"><h1>Apache-Dokumentation zu virtuellen Hosts</h1>
 <div class="toplang">
-<p><span>Verf�gbare Sprachen: </span><a href="../de/vhosts/" title="Deutsch">&nbsp;de&nbsp;</a> |
+<p><span>Verf&#252;gbare Sprachen: </span><a href="../de/vhosts/" title="Deutsch">&nbsp;de&nbsp;</a> |

FWIW, using:

$ $JAVA_HOME/bin/java -version
openjdk version "11.0.8" 2020-07-14
OpenJDK Runtime Environment 18.9 (build 11.0.8+10)
OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM 18.9 (build 11.0.8+10, mixed mode, sharing)

Stupid question, why do we need to change the suffix to .utf8 to convert
these files into UTF-8?

M       man/htdbm.1
M       manual/bind.html.de
M       manual/configuring.html.de
M       manual/glossary.html.de
M       manual/howto/htaccess.html.pt-br
M       manual/index.html.da
M       manual/index.html.de
M       manual/index.html.pt-br
M       manual/install.html.de
M       manual/invoking.html.de
M       manual/mod/core.html.de
M       manual/mod/core.html.es.utf8
M       manual/mod/core.html.ja.utf8
M       manual/mod/core.html.tr.utf8
M       manual/mod/directives.html.de
M       manual/mod/directives.html.ja.utf8
M       manual/mod/directives.html.ko.euc-kr
M       manual/mod/directives.html.tr.utf8
M       manual/mod/directives.html.zh-cn.utf8
M       manual/mod/index.html.de
M       manual/mod/mod_actions.html.de
M       manual/mod/mpm_common.html.de
M       manual/mod/mpm_winnt.html.de
M       manual/mod/prefork.html.de
M       manual/mod/quickreference.html.de
M       manual/mod/quickreference.html.ja.utf8
M       manual/mod/quickreference.html.ko.euc-kr
M       manual/mod/quickreference.html.tr.utf8
M       manual/mod/quickreference.html.zh-cn.utf8
M       manual/mod/worker.html.de
M       manual/mpm.html.de
M       manual/new_features_2_0.html.de
M       manual/new_features_2_0.html.pt-br
M       manual/new_features_2_2.html.pt-br
M       manual/sitemap.html.de
M       manual/stopping.html.de
M       manual/vhosts/index.html.de
M       manual/vhosts/name-based.html.de

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Re: svn commit: r1880368 - /httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml

Ruediger Pluem


On 8/19/20 9:47 AM, Joe Orton wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 08:36:02AM +0100, Joe Orton wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 07:08:21AM -0400, Eric Covener wrote:
>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:34 AM Joe Orton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 07:32:01AM -0400, Eric Covener wrote:
>>>>> FYI I am seeing if I can coordinate with Humbedooh to change all the
>>>>> generated files without one of those 17-part commit threads.
>>>>> But I will probably just commit in the next few hours either way.
>>>>
>>>> Does this still need to be done for trunk?  I'm kind of lost here (as
>>>> usual with the docs), but running "./build.sh all" in trunk gives me a
>>>> tonne of *.html.en.utf8 files.
>>>>
>>>> I have docs/manual/build at r1880369
>>>>
>>>> Should we do a mass "svn mv" for .html.en to .html.en.utf8?
>>>
>>> yes sorry. It looks nearly as noisy in the commit when I tested it but
>>> I did chat with Daniel and he said just bite the bullet and don't
>>> fiddle around with the mailing list.
>>
>> Thanks & no worries.  The public /docs/trunk/ content still seems to be
>> working so I'm hoping I haven't completely broken everything:
>>
>> r1880980 - magic bootstrap step needed to regenerate the typemaps correctly
>> r1880982 - surely the longest I have ever seen svn commit run for
>
> ... in fact in r1880982 I only ran "./build.sh en" I think.
>
> And I am still seeing a big diff changing ISO-8859-1 characters into
> HTML entities for other languages when re-running "build.sh all":

Should we move these languages to utf8 as well like we did for en?

Regards

Rüdiger

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Re: svn commit: r1880368 - /httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml

Christophe JAILLET
Le 19/08/2020 à 09:57, Ruediger Pluem a écrit :

>
>
> On 8/19/20 9:47 AM, Joe Orton wrote:
>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 08:36:02AM +0100, Joe Orton wrote:
>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 07:08:21AM -0400, Eric Covener wrote:
>>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:34 AM Joe Orton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 07:32:01AM -0400, Eric Covener wrote:
>>>>>> FYI I am seeing if I can coordinate with Humbedooh to change all the
>>>>>> generated files without one of those 17-part commit threads.
>>>>>> But I will probably just commit in the next few hours either way.
>>>>>
>>>>> Does this still need to be done for trunk?  I'm kind of lost here (as
>>>>> usual with the docs), but running "./build.sh all" in trunk gives me a
>>>>> tonne of *.html.en.utf8 files.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have docs/manual/build at r1880369
>>>>>
>>>>> Should we do a mass "svn mv" for .html.en to .html.en.utf8?
>>>>
>>>> yes sorry. It looks nearly as noisy in the commit when I tested it but
>>>> I did chat with Daniel and he said just bite the bullet and don't
>>>> fiddle around with the mailing list.
>>>
>>> Thanks & no worries.  The public /docs/trunk/ content still seems to be
>>> working so I'm hoping I haven't completely broken everything:
>>>
>>> r1880980 - magic bootstrap step needed to regenerate the typemaps correctly
>>> r1880982 - surely the longest I have ever seen svn commit run for
>>
>> ... in fact in r1880982 I only ran "./build.sh en" I think.
>>
>> And I am still seeing a big diff changing ISO-8859-1 characters into
>> HTML entities for other languages when re-running "build.sh all":
>
> Should we move these languages to utf8 as well like we did for en?
>
> Regards
>
> Rüdiger
>
>
+1
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Re: svn commit: r1880368 - /httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml

Christophe JAILLET
In reply to this post by Joe Orton
Le 19/08/2020 à 09:47, Joe Orton a écrit :

> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 08:36:02AM +0100, Joe Orton wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 07:08:21AM -0400, Eric Covener wrote:
>>> On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 6:34 AM Joe Orton <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 28, 2020 at 07:32:01AM -0400, Eric Covener wrote:
>>>>> FYI I am seeing if I can coordinate with Humbedooh to change all the
>>>>> generated files without one of those 17-part commit threads.
>>>>> But I will probably just commit in the next few hours either way.
>>>>
>>>> Does this still need to be done for trunk?  I'm kind of lost here (as
>>>> usual with the docs), but running "./build.sh all" in trunk gives me a
>>>> tonne of *.html.en.utf8 files.
>>>>
>>>> I have docs/manual/build at r1880369
>>>>
>>>> Should we do a mass "svn mv" for .html.en to .html.en.utf8?
>>>
>>> yes sorry. It looks nearly as noisy in the commit when I tested it but
>>> I did chat with Daniel and he said just bite the bullet and don't
>>> fiddle around with the mailing list.
>>
>> Thanks & no worries.  The public /docs/trunk/ content still seems to be
>> working so I'm hoping I haven't completely broken everything:
>>
>> r1880980 - magic bootstrap step needed to regenerate the typemaps correctly
>> r1880982 - surely the longest I have ever seen svn commit run for
>
> ... in fact in r1880982 I only ran "./build.sh en" I think.
>
> And I am still seeing a big diff changing ISO-8859-1 characters into
> HTML entities for other languages when re-running "build.sh all":
>
> $ svn diff vhosts/index.html.de  | head
> Index: vhosts/index.html.de
> ===================================================================
> --- vhosts/index.html.de (revision 1880979)
> +++ vhosts/index.html.de (working copy)
> @@ -23,59 +23,59 @@
>   <div id="path">
>   <a href="http://www.apache.org/">Apache</a> &gt; <a href="http://httpd.apache.org/">HTTP-Server</a> &gt; <a href="http://httpd.apache.org/docs/">Dokumentation</a> &gt; <a href="../">Version 2.5</a></div><div id="page-content"><div id="preamble"><h1>Apache-Dokumentation zu virtuellen Hosts</h1>
>   <div class="toplang">
> -<p><span>Verf�gbare Sprachen: </span><a href="../de/vhosts/" title="Deutsch">&nbsp;de&nbsp;</a> |
> +<p><span>Verf&#252;gbare Sprachen: </span><a href="../de/vhosts/" title="Deutsch">&nbsp;de&nbsp;</a> |
>
> FWIW, using:
>
> $ $JAVA_HOME/bin/java -version
> openjdk version "11.0.8" 2020-07-14
> OpenJDK Runtime Environment 18.9 (build 11.0.8+10)
> OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM 18.9 (build 11.0.8+10, mixed mode, sharing)
>
> Stupid question, why do we need to change the suffix to .utf8 to convert
> these files into UTF-8?

I don't think it is needed, just a matter of consistancy in naming.
See r1878788 to see the magic needed to concert to UTF-8 (without
renaming files)

CJ


>
> M       man/htdbm.1
> M       manual/bind.html.de
> M       manual/configuring.html.de
> M       manual/glossary.html.de
> M       manual/howto/htaccess.html.pt-br
> M       manual/index.html.da
> M       manual/index.html.de
> M       manual/index.html.pt-br
> M       manual/install.html.de
> M       manual/invoking.html.de
> M       manual/mod/core.html.de
> M       manual/mod/core.html.es.utf8
> M       manual/mod/core.html.ja.utf8
> M       manual/mod/core.html.tr.utf8
> M       manual/mod/directives.html.de
> M       manual/mod/directives.html.ja.utf8
> M       manual/mod/directives.html.ko.euc-kr
> M       manual/mod/directives.html.tr.utf8
> M       manual/mod/directives.html.zh-cn.utf8
> M       manual/mod/index.html.de
> M       manual/mod/mod_actions.html.de
> M       manual/mod/mpm_common.html.de
> M       manual/mod/mpm_winnt.html.de
> M       manual/mod/prefork.html.de
> M       manual/mod/quickreference.html.de
> M       manual/mod/quickreference.html.ja.utf8
> M       manual/mod/quickreference.html.ko.euc-kr
> M       manual/mod/quickreference.html.tr.utf8
> M       manual/mod/quickreference.html.zh-cn.utf8
> M       manual/mod/worker.html.de
> M       manual/mpm.html.de
> M       manual/new_features_2_0.html.de
> M       manual/new_features_2_0.html.pt-br
> M       manual/new_features_2_2.html.pt-br
> M       manual/sitemap.html.de
> M       manual/stopping.html.de
> M       manual/vhosts/index.html.de
> M       manual/vhosts/name-based.html.de
>
>

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Re: svn commit: r1880368 - /httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml

Joe Orton
On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 10:08:12AM +0200, Christophe JAILLET wrote:
> Le 19/08/2020 à 09:47, Joe Orton a écrit :
> > Stupid question, why do we need to change the suffix to .utf8 to convert
> > these files into UTF-8?
>
> I don't think it is needed, just a matter of consistancy in naming.
> See r1878788 to see the magic needed to concert to UTF-8 (without renaming
> files)

[Adding docs@ to CC.]

Shall we move everything (except for Korean?) to UTF-8 and drop the
.utf8 suffix as well?  It would still be consistent then.

(I only just renamed those files but, revisions are cheap? ;)

Only problem is the 100-part SVN commit diff e-mail?

Regards, Joe

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Re: svn commit: r1880368 - /httpd/httpd/trunk/docs/manual/style/lang-targets.xml

Mike Rumph-2
Would it be possible to skip the SVN commit diff email?
Like it is possible with [skip ci] to bypass the CI runs.

On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 7:35 AM Joe Orton <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 10:08:12AM +0200, Christophe JAILLET wrote:
> Le 19/08/2020 à 09:47, Joe Orton a écrit :
> > Stupid question, why do we need to change the suffix to .utf8 to convert
> > these files into UTF-8?
>
> I don't think it is needed, just a matter of consistancy in naming.
> See r1878788 to see the magic needed to concert to UTF-8 (without renaming
> files)

[Adding docs@ to CC.]

Shall we move everything (except for Korean?) to UTF-8 and drop the
.utf8 suffix as well?  It would still be consistent then.

(I only just renamed those files but, revisions are cheap? ;)

Only problem is the 100-part SVN commit diff e-mail?

Regards, Joe